这里进入或者http://blog.c3crm.com/?q=node/106#comment-142进入。


newbie on this board

kansas 在 周二, 2006-03-07 03:31 提交

sorry for typing my message in English. Reason: I can not install Chinese language software on the company laptop without approval!

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一位Oracle CRM Expert在C3CRM’s Blog上的评论

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对这个话题感兴趣的朋友可以在blog上跟贴,可从这里进入或者http://blog.c3crm.com/?q=node/106#comment-142进入。

newbie on this board

kansas 在 周二, 2006-03-07 03:31 提交

sorry for typing my message in English. Reason: I can not install Chinese language software on the company laptop without approval!

I have been working on the CRM system for ISP in the States since late 1998….. now, I am an Oracle CRM expert …. still working in the telecom industry.

I come across this board by accident… It seems someone has been working on open source CRM system. I am really surprised! not too many people doing open source commercial application those days, especially for enterprise solution! …. only thing I can think of is that some Israel companies were trying to provide free CRM application to some minor telecom firms in the States, however, it is just for the sake of getting a foot step in the NorthAmerican Market…. it is not aimed to provide free software forever…. this lead to my curiosity: who is sponsoring your development effort? how big is your system C3CRM2.0.0? I am not trying to be intrusive or nosy! I would be astonished if I find out that you guys are trying to come up with an enterprise solution.

Thank you very much!
Kansas

Re:newbie on this board

dfar2008 在 周二, 2006-03-07 07:03 提交

Thanks for your post.
you can learn c3crm via our demo:https://demo.c3crm.com

We are trying to provide open source and free crm for SME in china. We also set up a c3crm product consulants group for c3crm system. Welcome you to join this group. you can join via http://product.c3crm.com. You can contact me by gmail(dfar2008@gmail.com) for detail info about c3crm.

Tim Ding

impression&suggestion

kansas 在 周三, 2006-03-08 06:54 提交

Yes! I did take a look at your GUI at https://demo.c3crm.com. However, I have not spent too much time to review the details. The following items are based on a quick glance at the tabs that indicate the basic features of your software.
Impression:
[1] The GUI looks very professional. It will catch the eyes of the potential users.
[2] The software is more like J. D. Edwards application. So, it may be a good fit for a sales department or manufacture, but not a CRM system for customer service, such as call-center.
[3] The application is trying to cover every aspect of the business, which may be too much to handle.
Suggestion:
[1] To include statistics in CRM application is definitely not a great idea, Data Mining is resource intense process. In most companies I worked for this process often locate on separate server that get the production data over night. There are many different software for dataMining/reporting available on the market.
[2] To include the Email system into the CRM application is a redundant effort. MS Outlook already has all the functionalities ready. Why spend resource to duplicate the same features? Maybe there is a confusion about ERMS[EmailResponseManagementSystem]. In peopleSoft CRM, the ERMS automatically handles the structure Email request. And customer Representatives use group email alias to handle the worklist, which often belongs to un-structured email request. However, it does not handle individual reps email or meeting schedule.
[3] Somehow the log in process takes too much time[roughly 30 seconds]. I hope this was not due to the network connectivity issue. Also, to use the Apache as web server is OK, however, if you do not have tomcat/weblogic/websphere to handle the transaction, there is no way for you to support the concurrent users on enterprise scale. To use Mysql as the database server? Hmm….. It does not look promising! I do not know your architectural design, so, I can not make too much comment. But one thing I can tell you: A good CRM application has to be 3 tier architecture, and web server, application server, and database server should be on separate boxes.

Good luck for your project! Please forgive me if I made blunt statement here.

Re:impression&suggestion

dfar2008 在 周四, 2006-03-09 04:40 提交

kansas,多谢您的建议。
上次用英文回答您,某些人有意见,这次就用中文回了,再说我的英文还那么蹩脚。
回答如下:
1)statistics in CRM application
由 于C3CRM所面对的客户的CRM用户大概在5-50 Users,在国内这样的公司很少出钱购买dataMining/reporting tools,据我了解,美国、英国那边的小公司也没有购买这样的工具,他们都希望系统里具有dataMining/reporting的功能,而且这个对 他们非常重要,目前C3CRM的Report模块功能还比较简单,新版本正在开发中。
2)To include the Email system into the CRM application
集成Email也是用户的需求,但对于使用outlook的用户我们将提供outlook插件,与C3CRM集成,便于用户收发Email。
3)Somehow the log in process takes too much time[roughly 30 seconds]
我们将研究一下代码,检查一下为什么需要这么长时间,尽量提高C3CRM的速度。
4)3 tier architecture
由 于我也是做Java出身,对你说的东西还是深有感触的。做一个伸缩性比较强的系统,3层架构尤为重要的,我从事的阿尔卡特的PDM系统也是采用这样的系统 架构,但是有一点,你要清楚,我们面对的客户不是像阿尔卡特这样的客户,而是中小型公司,这些客户没有那么多钱买那么多服务器和中间件以及大型数据库,何 况他们的业务量也没有那么大,我觉得LAMP(Linux,apache ,mysql,php)平台完全能满足这些客户的需要,更重要的是这样的平台均是免费的,mysql也越来越强,受到了很多VC的青睐。
可能你在 美国访问我们的demo比较慢,你可以访问一下这个demo:http://ohpacking.biz/c3crm/index.php,服务器是在美 国的,希望您抽时间认真研究一下C3CRM,提提建议,为国内的开源事业共进一份力,如果您感兴趣,也可以加入我们的产品顾问小组,该小组里有很多像您一 样的CRM Expert,大家一起探讨一些有关CRM的话题。
非常感谢您的建议!

Before we discuss the

kansas 在 周五, 2006-03-10 19:27 提交

Before we discuss the software architecture, let me briefly recall the latest CRM history. So, we can see where we are, what may happen next. A software architect must have a clear vision!

Back 12-13 years ago, we saw hundreds [if not thousands] CRM software vendors/builders mushroomed under the rainbow of high-tech booming rainbow. However, by the end of 2000, 90% of them died under the scorching sunlight of harsh reality, and only a handful names still can be seen or heard: SAP, peopelsoft, Siebel, J.D.Edwards, and Oracle. But game is not over yet! Since vendors run out of tier one customers [mega size companies], they started to look the market of medium size business, and trying to scale down their existing application for this need. This move just enticed the appetite of Microsoft. Then, a new era of war started. Microsoft announced that she will be the one who will provide medium [and small] size business firms with CRM system. Nobody could afford to misunderstand her statement. The sheer weight of this three hundred pounds gorilla can simply crash any small dog on the field. Every software company has to remember the miserable story of WordPerfect, Lotus123, Netscape, etc…… In order to defend themselves, the Merger&Acquisition party prelude the real competition. As you may know, Peoplesoft bought out J.D.Edwards which is very popular with manufacture firms. But Larry of Oracle has simply abandoned his obscure CRM application, and swallowed peoplesoft and Siebel as a whole. As of today [March of 2006], the line has being clearly drawn on the battle field: large firms have being divided between SAP[strong in Europe, aggressive in NorthAmerica] and Oracle [keeping its existing lucrative customers, while struggling with merger related issues, both in personnel and software]; The market of medium size firm is un-chartered territory. Nobody can present an rock solid evidence to convincing customers that her system is the best. Amid of the turmoil, we saw google, the dragon slayer in Bill’s eye, are sneaking in. It seems google is trying to grab all the small business firms by providing web-based application hosting service for CRM system [un-confirmed rumors !!] . This is a major blast to Microsoft. I just saw a news that google is working on beta testing of a calendar program, tentatively called CL2. My instinct is telling me that the combination of Gmail+CL2 will kill MS Outlook. 3 years down the road, Microsoft will not dare to ask license fee for Outlook.

Now, let’s look at your targeting market here. Your system is:
[1] it is a generic application, not specific to any particular industry or any commercial field.
[2] it consist of front-end browser based GUI, and back-end database storage
[3] it is for small/medium business firm [end user below 50 Users can hardly be called medium size business]

Question: do you have a sizable target market to enter?
Answer: Yes! You do, and it is a huge market too. Thousands of small business owners do need CRM system to facilitate their business operation. Unfortunately this is also the market that the big dogs have their eyes on.
Question: can you afford to have an head-on collision with Microsoft? http://www.microsoft.com/dynamics/crm/product/overview.mspx
Answer: No! you can not, if Microsoft simply bundle its CRM application into MS Office like Word, or give it away for free like IE browser. It will be extremely hard for you to get any customer. Who wants to do separate software installation/maintenance when he/she already has similar software that comes with standard office suite or even OS?! Also, Microsoft has oversea branches all over the world, localization process is relatively easy. So, you have no clear advantage over it.

OK! Enough for the bad news!….
What is the solution or how to position your software to an unique niche in the market?
My advise is market specialization. That is no generic application, but focus your software solution for specific industry and professional field. Such as doctor office [hospital/clinic] CRM application, security company CRM application, etc…
Why? Because it is not worth for big boys to do tailor job here… that naturally closed the door for big gorillas, so, you only compete with people in your size. Indeed, today’s software world, only two business practice can make it through: specialized service and mass-production. The big boys are in the mass-production side[also called affordability&profitability, that mean consumer can afford to buy it in lower price, while vendor company can sell it in mass quantity to make profit]. This is the reason that why Siebel even has the best technology in CRM [and she was number 1 vendor in the States one time], but just can not survive in long term, because her cost was high, only after merger with Oracle, it can layoff thousands of duplicated jobs, her technological advance can provide profit for the company. …….

I hope I explained the reason of my advise, However, Please Don’t take my remarks literally!

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